They can be distinguished from normal corporations by actually having morals.
(Other non-standard sapients (eg. Animals) can be distinguished from their non-sapient counterparts (animals) by the capital, but that isn’t so good a distinguisher for corporations.)
But what sort of morals would a sentient corporation have? Seriously, it’s species-ism to assume they’d have to be compatible with our (meat-based) ones.
Presumably the difference would be that the sapient corporation would be able to choose to exercise its duty to its customers over its duty to its shareholders, whereas a nonsapient one is supposed to place its shareholders’ interests first.
No no nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure. Given that it’s probably a multinational corporation there might be some collateral damage and we might get our hair mussed up bu it wouyld be worth it.
As far as we know, she’s just a hive mind, by default no worse (and no better) than Gavotte. Being a business owner/business operator/business or most of her components being humans shouldn’t change one’s opinion.
However, you may be interested in Simon Green’s Something From the Nightside, which features Abomination Incorporated.
(Also Suzie Shooter, the Harrowing, Merlin Satanspawn, the Unholy Grail, Lilith, St. Jude’s of Lost Causes, an empty house, and Razor Eddie, Punk God of the Straight Razor.)
I think UNITY figured it out, and we figured it out, but Nick wasn’t privy to Sweetheart and UNITY’s conversation. Also, based on Sweetheart’s reactions to UNITY’s comparison, I don’t think she fully understood or got it herself at that time.
As I read it, Annie Mouse (a Minnie Mouse cognate, but see the “animus” discussion) is a particularly cloying Whimsy character whom we have not met. Nick is saying that the world is better off if anyone who could invent such a character only creates virtual children, instead of procreating the usual way.
Actually, Nick, I would rather picture that. I could at least assume that it was consensual.
If WhimsyCorp is a sapient entity, then it has a right to exist.
If the parts that make it up are people, they are sapient entities, with a right to sever their association (i.e., quit, dump their stock, whatever.) While WhimsyCorp may be large enough (in terms of people, not capital) that the problem is psychohistorically unlikely to occur, it is still a possibility that enough of its parts will leave to cause it to be an ex Sapient Enitity.
I see no way that these rights (to exist, to quit) can coexist. If WhimsyCorp is to defend its existence, it must limit the ability of its parts to leave, and that is slavery.
So, step one: Break any brainwashing. Step two: Wait and see. If, absent brainwashing, Whimsycorp continues without breaking laws, then there’s no problem. But that’s a big if.
You do realize that what you just described is a Sapient Government, since all governments are themselves corporate entities that control their “people parts”, don’t you?
No one’s been forcefully made part of WhimsyCorp. If you choose to watch the movies and get those damned songs … oh damn, think of the little children.
Wasn’t some of the… umm, rioting?… against Dr Collodi because of brainwashing? He said something about people getting upset about that during the filmstrip….
Oh, I know. I’m just commenting on the “no one’s been forcefully made part of WhimsyCorp”. They were if Collodi’s brainwashing was a first step to creating it….
Fun fact: Presently the wording of Vermont’s law Is such that corporations can get married since marriage was a union of any to legal persons and corporate personhood Is in effect. Additionally, everyone realizes that discrimination against sapient corporations is racism right?
So, instead of doing a hostile takeover by buying lots of stock, I could move to Vermont and see about marrying one of their corporations? Consent, how do I prove consent absent a stockholders meeting? And for the biggy, are they a community property state? What’s Delaware’s current situation, they have lots of corporations, yes? Actually, wouldn’t a hostile takeover be a forced marriage, which is considered a no-no? Hmm…
Hmmm interesting, but how do I get Microsoft to agree to marry me?
Also, it’s not racism to discriminate against corporations since they’re not a race. It’s not speciesism either. “Entityism” might work, or “thingism” if we want to be sure.
So, wait. If the pattern holds and this gestalt entity is mysteriously disappeared just before the team can extract vital information from it… what does that mean? How could Anasigma kill WhimsyCorp, short of killing its employees? Would buying them out suffice, or would they have to replace its staff? Would replacing its staff even change anything, or would it be a Ship of Theseus situation? Where are a corporation’s vital organs?
(I mean, not that they’d bat an eyelash at killing WhimsyCorp’s employees. This IS Anasigma we’re talking about.)
Covertly purchase the company, make bad financial decisions on purpose (probably “helping” your own in the process), declare bankrupcy. It’s been done by companies a lot of times in the past to weed out competition, so it should be a breeze for Anasigma.
Well I only managed a few verses and had to take some liberties with the rhythm, but here it is:
To the tune of “Purple People Eater” by Sheb Wooley
Well Nick was thinkin’ when he realized,
Collodi’s daughter’s corporation-sized,
He commenced to running, yelling “Listen to me!
We’re dealing with a gestalt entity!”
(Chorus)
She is a gestalt entity with lots of moving people parts,
Gestalt entity with lots of moving people parts,
Gestalt entity with lots of moving people parts,
The Spirit of Whimsy (Gestalt?)
Well Sweetheart thinks that this is perturbing,
using people to exist seems downright disturbing,
Nick says “Know what’s more disturbing for me?
Thinking of kindly, old man reproductivity.”
Corporations have been ruled to be considered a person in of themselves.
This is simply the evolution of that idea to the logical extreme.
Who knows, WhimsyCorp might want to “absorb” the Violet drone simply so it doesn’t have to speak with them through the special effects medium it’s been using so far.
This is simply the evolution of that idea to the logical extreme.
Who knows, WhimsyCorp might want to “absorb” the Violet drone simply so it doesn’t have to speak with them through the special effects medium it’s been using so far.
The Fact that Whimsy Corp is a living thing is supposed to be a revelation? because I already knew that (“My House is Me”?).
But it does surprise me that she is Collodi’s daughter
Where did Nick get the idea that the daughter was the one talking through/was WhimsyCorp? Nobody ever said so, and WhimsyCorp told Unity to find the daughter, which implies the opposite. Did I miss something or is this a plothole?
It does seem to be a contradiction. When the apparition told Unity to find Collodi’s daughter, it also said “I did not authorize the destruction of my birthplace.” That suggests that it was in fact Collodi’s daughter talking, but without a corporeal body, she needed Skin Horse to “find” her.
And now you two are truly stretching the limits of my ability to empathize with hypothetical nonhuman intelligences.
I mean, talking dogs? Keen! Unity? I just have to try not to smell tasty. Robots and hamsters and hive-mind-ecosystems, no problem.
But my default reaction to a sapient corporation is FIND FIRE THAT CAN KILL IT AND THEN KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Leveraged buyouts work so much better.
Sapient Corporations are people, too!
They can be distinguished from normal corporations by actually having morals.
(Other non-standard sapients (eg. Animals) can be distinguished from their non-sapient counterparts (animals) by the capital, but that isn’t so good a distinguisher for corporations.)
WhimsyCorp has, so far, failed that test.
But what sort of morals would a sentient corporation have? Seriously, it’s species-ism to assume they’d have to be compatible with our (meat-based) ones.
Presumably the difference would be that the sapient corporation would be able to choose to exercise its duty to its customers over its duty to its shareholders, whereas a nonsapient one is supposed to place its shareholders’ interests first.
“Sapient Corporations are people, too!”
I’ll believe that sapient corporations are people when Texas starts forcing schools to teach them Creationism.
No no nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure. Given that it’s probably a multinational corporation there might be some collateral damage and we might get our hair mussed up bu it wouyld be worth it.
Ehh; an entity is not required to be what other entities picture it as. I mean, look at pit bulls.
As far as we know, she’s just a hive mind, by default no worse (and no better) than Gavotte. Being a business owner/business operator/business or most of her components being humans shouldn’t change one’s opinion.
I notice he’s had to call in the others since he still hasn’t managed to unplug all those cables in order to do this properly.
Man, I wanted to see something like this since I read The Raw Shark Texts.
I still need to read that.
However, you may be interested in Simon Green’s Something From the Nightside, which features Abomination Incorporated.
(Also Suzie Shooter, the Harrowing, Merlin Satanspawn, the Unholy Grail, Lilith, St. Jude’s of Lost Causes, an empty house, and Razor Eddie, Punk God of the Straight Razor.)
I… that perhaps some emergency punctuation should be placed in the last panel.
Put ‘think’ between the ‘I’ and the ‘that.’
…I thought we’d already established this.
Same.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear after they found out it was talking by taking the first words of emails.
Bizarre intelligence, or giant Rube Goldberg consipiracy? In this ‘verse, I’m going to assume the former — it’s just simpler, and quite possible.
I think UNITY figured it out, and we figured it out, but Nick wasn’t privy to Sweetheart and UNITY’s conversation. Also, based on Sweetheart’s reactions to UNITY’s comparison, I don’t think she fully understood or got it herself at that time.
I called this like what… a month ago?
Shaenon must be up to something; this is mere sleight of hand to set us up for some OTHER weirdness.
Like maybe Anasigma is actually operated by Whimsy as their “Operational Branch” or they actually have a working portal into MemeSpace…
mnem
smeg.
Annie Mouse? Annonymouse? Anonymous! An entity with people as its parts. That created anonymous?
4chan?
No, just no.
Animus. Latin for “soul.” Though your speculation made me realize that, so thanks.
I was just riffing, playing with the words until I found something awful to end on.
I don’t get the last dialogue.
As I read it, Annie Mouse (a Minnie Mouse cognate, but see the “animus” discussion) is a particularly cloying Whimsy character whom we have not met. Nick is saying that the world is better off if anyone who could invent such a character only creates virtual children, instead of procreating the usual way.
Actually, Nick, I would rather picture that. I could at least assume that it was consensual.
If WhimsyCorp is a sapient entity, then it has a right to exist.
If the parts that make it up are people, they are sapient entities, with a right to sever their association (i.e., quit, dump their stock, whatever.) While WhimsyCorp may be large enough (in terms of people, not capital) that the problem is psychohistorically unlikely to occur, it is still a possibility that enough of its parts will leave to cause it to be an ex Sapient Enitity.
I see no way that these rights (to exist, to quit) can coexist. If WhimsyCorp is to defend its existence, it must limit the ability of its parts to leave, and that is slavery.
So, step one: Break any brainwashing. Step two: Wait and see. If, absent brainwashing, Whimsycorp continues without breaking laws, then there’s no problem. But that’s a big if.
You do realize that what you just described is a Sapient Government, since all governments are themselves corporate entities that control their “people parts”, don’t you?
Just because governments do it, doesn’t make it right.
No one’s been forcefully made part of WhimsyCorp. If you choose to watch the movies and get those damned songs … oh damn, think of the little children.
And I rather doubt that there were warnings at the beginning of the movies or the front of the rides: “Warning: May Cause Loss of Free Will”
Wasn’t some of the… umm, rioting?… against Dr Collodi because of brainwashing? He said something about people getting upset about that during the filmstrip….
Yep. But on the other hand, not all products of evil mad genius are mad/evil themselves.
Oh, I know. I’m just commenting on the “no one’s been forcefully made part of WhimsyCorp”. They were if Collodi’s brainwashing was a first step to creating it….
Nick: “We’re a bunch of cheese-eating horseheads.”
UNITY: “Thank you!”
roflmao
Fun fact: Presently the wording of Vermont’s law Is such that corporations can get married since marriage was a union of any to legal persons and corporate personhood Is in effect. Additionally, everyone realizes that discrimination against sapient corporations is racism right?
So, instead of doing a hostile takeover by buying lots of stock, I could move to Vermont and see about marrying one of their corporations? Consent, how do I prove consent absent a stockholders meeting? And for the biggy, are they a community property state? What’s Delaware’s current situation, they have lots of corporations, yes? Actually, wouldn’t a hostile takeover be a forced marriage, which is considered a no-no? Hmm…
Hmmm interesting, but how do I get Microsoft to agree to marry me?
Also, it’s not racism to discriminate against corporations since they’re not a race. It’s not speciesism either. “Entityism” might work, or “thingism” if we want to be sure.
As I said before, Corporations are people my friends!
So, wait. If the pattern holds and this gestalt entity is mysteriously disappeared just before the team can extract vital information from it… what does that mean? How could Anasigma kill WhimsyCorp, short of killing its employees? Would buying them out suffice, or would they have to replace its staff? Would replacing its staff even change anything, or would it be a Ship of Theseus situation? Where are a corporation’s vital organs?
(I mean, not that they’d bat an eyelash at killing WhimsyCorp’s employees. This IS Anasigma we’re talking about.)
Covertly purchase the company, make bad financial decisions on purpose (probably “helping” your own in the process), declare bankrupcy. It’s been done by companies a lot of times in the past to weed out competition, so it should be a breeze for Anasigma.
Well I only managed a few verses and had to take some liberties with the rhythm, but here it is:
To the tune of “Purple People Eater” by Sheb Wooley
Well Nick was thinkin’ when he realized,
Collodi’s daughter’s corporation-sized,
He commenced to running, yelling “Listen to me!
We’re dealing with a gestalt entity!”
(Chorus)
She is a gestalt entity with lots of moving people parts,
Gestalt entity with lots of moving people parts,
Gestalt entity with lots of moving people parts,
The Spirit of Whimsy (Gestalt?)
Well Sweetheart thinks that this is perturbing,
using people to exist seems downright disturbing,
Nick says “Know what’s more disturbing for me?
Thinking of kindly, old man reproductivity.”
(Chorus) Entity?
Aw yeah, it’s like R.O.D. and Dokusensha’s billion-person committee! (the anime, not the manga) That’s so many kinds of awesome!
Yes, I am a geek.
This should make the Supreme Court feel a whole lot better about “Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission”.
Corporations have been ruled to be considered a person in of themselves.
This is simply the evolution of that idea to the logical extreme.
Who knows, WhimsyCorp might want to “absorb” the Violet drone simply so it doesn’t have to speak with them through the special effects medium it’s been using so far.
Companies as people.
This is simply the evolution of that idea to the logical extreme.
Who knows, WhimsyCorp might want to “absorb” the Violet drone simply so it doesn’t have to speak with them through the special effects medium it’s been using so far.
The Fact that Whimsy Corp is a living thing is supposed to be a revelation? because I already knew that (“My House is Me”?).
But it does surprise me that she is Collodi’s daughter
The Thousand-Eyes is Real!
THE THOUSAND-EYES IS REAL!
Where did Nick get the idea that the daughter was the one talking through/was WhimsyCorp? Nobody ever said so, and WhimsyCorp told Unity to find the daughter, which implies the opposite. Did I miss something or is this a plothole?
It does seem to be a contradiction. When the apparition told Unity to find Collodi’s daughter, it also said “I did not authorize the destruction of my birthplace.” That suggests that it was in fact Collodi’s daughter talking, but without a corporeal body, she needed Skin Horse to “find” her.