That would be “god from the rat”, which is nonsensical.
‘Rattus ex machina’ is correct – literally “rat from the machine”, figuratively a rat that appeared out of nowhere to solve a problem for the main characters.
While I can appreciate that logic, “deus ex machina” is broadly used to mean a solution (“deus” refers to the otherwise implausible solution that became possible only because the gods could do whatever they wanted) introduced by an unforeseen plot device (the “machina” literally brought the gods onto the stage). In this case, the unforeseen plot device is a rat. So “deus ex rattus” makes perfect sense.
Well, I’m afraid I can’t appreciate -your- logic, because it goes against literal millennia of convention.
The rat didn’t bring a “god” that solved their problem. The rat -is- the one solving the problem.
It makes no sense to substitute “ex machina” for something else, because there is no actual physical machine or other force delivering the rat to the scene. It’s a figurative usage, and you can’t replace the figurative object of the saying with a literal subject.
You substitute “deus” for “rattus”, because they’re interchangeable – they’re both the subject of the statement, the agent taking action, the character introduced to solve a problem.
You don’t substitute “ex machina” for “ex rattus”, because they’re NOT interchangeable – there is no literal machine within the fiction of the story delivering the god, it’s a wholly external element.
“because it goes against literal millennia of convention.”
You say that as if people have been using “rattus ex machina” for millenia. They haven’t.
Frankly, I couldn’t care less whether you can appreciate my logic. It isn’t the first time you and I have disagreed, and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
Oh for Pete’s sake, you’re being purposefully obtuse, aren’t you?
As if any remotely reasonable person would honestly think I meant the play on the original phrase spawned in direct response to -today’s comic strip- rather than the original itself. You have heard of context, I assume? Or shall I lend you a dictionary?
Really now! I can only assume you’re being a grade A troll, because the alternative is almost too depressing to contemplate seriously.
The issue is if it’s the god that solved the problem or the machine that solved the problem. And in this case is it bringing in the rat that solves the problem or bringing in a third character who happens to be a rat. I’ve gone back and forth, but I’m inclined to think that as the problem was solved by bringing in rat, rather than the problem being solved by a rat who was brought in by a contrevence, I’m inclined to think the rat is the mechanism and the boinking with a book that is the solution. Deus ex Rattina.
“The rat didn’t bring a “god” that solved their problem. The rat -is- the one solving the problem.”
I have to say that, no, it is the exact opposite. The God is the solution. The machine is the convoluted convience that lead to the solution. The god/solution was the book dropping. The machanism was the rat.
You know. …my language can be more creatively descriptive than precise. Now and then, I get “called out” for it, usually by someone in programming or philosophy. Usually, I roll with it and have a sense of humor.
S’been hard, though, with everything else going on. I think it’s a little bit like excessive grammar correction. There’s a point past which it becomes inappropriate.
I mean, a touch of humor or a mention asking for clarification is one thing, yeah? Beyond that, it’s time for a cup of tea, and a reminder that while a pulpit is present, one is not at church. Then, two to five minutes in, everyone needs to add some whisky, and hoping the vicar doesn’t notice.
The interplay reminds me of that. Maybe we all need to chill for a while, and grab some pizza.
If I recall correctly, the “machina” in the original phrase was the theatrical machinery (ropes, pulleys, etc.) that lowered the actor playing the “deus” into the scene so they could work a miracle to move the plot along. In non-theatrical contexts, the “machina” would seem to be the coincidence the author contrives to bring the new character (the “deus”) into the story just when the established characters need their help
In this situation, the “machina” or coincidence would be Valiant happening to be (minor spoiler for the next day’s strip) splicing cable in or near the library when Sergio was attacked. And the cable could be considered a literal “machina” of sorts.
Latin is straight forward. “God from a machine”, so either “God from a rat” or “rat from a machine”. Latin is not the issue. How to apply the metaphor is. I’m inclined to think “God=dropping a book” and “machine=rat” but “God=rat” and “machine=previously unknown character” is understandable. It’s certainly not clear cut with one way being obviously correct and the other obviously wrong. Accusations of nonsensical and troll are not really applicable.
Heh, me best friend did a costume wedding. He was dressed much like it sounds like you were with the Ren fair gear. His groomsmen (myself, his best man and at the time soon to be brother-in-law, and a third friend) dressed as the dude (the brother-in-law), Walther (the third friend), and Donny (I kinda pulled the short end of the stick) from The Big Labowski. He loved it.
Remember Duke’s adage? ‘Always bet on the cornered rat!’ The True Rat, like
‘Splinter’ of the ‘Turtles’ can teach and fight quite well. Which this motley crew
certainly has need of. Rattus ex Machina, indeed. WElcome!
This one knows what to do when push comes to shove. Our asenine tiger-oaf
wouldn’t like to try a taste of THIS one. He’s kind of stickery.
Yes, let’s just meet violence with silence, shall we? You know how well the Anasigma concussion protocol works? Not well at all! Team Evil is supposed to be the bad guys with the deadly weapons, but we don’t make weapons that can make their targets beat their spouse. BIFF! POW! CTE! “Oh, he’s just evil,” they’ll say when he snaps, forgetting the victim was ever a happy young animal torturer. Nice job, Righteous Fists of Fury, do you want to compare kill scores before we discuss who’s really packing the “less lethal” weaponry?
Alas, if you swap the “R” for the “A”, then it is no longer standard French to replace the “e” in “de” with an apostrophe, as the object of the preposition now begins with a consonant, not a vowel. This would change the name to “de Ratagnan:, which doesn’t seem to be what you were going for.
(Disclaimer: Je parle français comme une vache espagnole.)
It was in my mind to type Du Ratagnan (Thus making him a wandering IT professional of Noble birth, but I thought that would be misleading on what I was referring to.
And yes, ‘Engarde, Monsieur Pussycat.’ would be perfect.
Okay, when you find a rat I.T. professional dressed in a little tabard, wielding a rapier obviously made out of rattan — you have to assume that somewhere around here there’s a rat chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
And that is way cooler than just a wandering rat hero.
But if we’re talking hero qualities, y’know, he’s right. He is valiant.
Quite right – I suppose didn’t think of a baldric because there’s no scabbard or sheath visible, and even if there were it would be on the wrong hip, but clearly that’s what it’s trying to be and I just missed it.
“Plague Rats” are often a standard feature in SCAdian events. Our household’s Pennsic encampment’s guarded by one sporting a collection of site tokens.
Le reste va être amusant alors:
Prince Vaillant, rat de bibliothèque, va démontrer être rat -fesse-matthieu- par la succession de situations justifiant les collocations rat de cave, d’hôtel, de prison, d’église
Et puisque merci CNRTL, je me fends d’un bout de corpus:
[Le prince] était d’un rat! Imaginez-vous le soir, en se couchant, il cachait ses louis dans ses bottes (Zola,Nana, 1880)
Moi, prince et spectre, un rat paisible me grignote ! (Hugo, La légende des siècles, 1859)
Oooh, that’s some serious jealousy going on there, Artie. Don’t worry, he’s a *genmodded rat*– he can’t turn hominid, right? That takes additional work a la pink wine and pixie sticks. And if it turns out that he actually CAN, then hey, threesome! **settles down with popcorn**
that really is cool. and watch yourself cat, you don’t know what you’re messing with
It’s Artie that’s gotta watch out—he’s got competition for Sergio’s affections…
Artie does sound a wee bit threatened in panel 4…
Rattus ex machina.
I think the phrase you’re trying for is “Deus ex Rodentia”.
That would be “god from the rat”, which is nonsensical.
‘Rattus ex machina’ is correct – literally “rat from the machine”, figuratively a rat that appeared out of nowhere to solve a problem for the main characters.
While I can appreciate that logic, “deus ex machina” is broadly used to mean a solution (“deus” refers to the otherwise implausible solution that became possible only because the gods could do whatever they wanted) introduced by an unforeseen plot device (the “machina” literally brought the gods onto the stage). In this case, the unforeseen plot device is a rat. So “deus ex rattus” makes perfect sense.
Well, I’m afraid I can’t appreciate -your- logic, because it goes against literal millennia of convention.
The rat didn’t bring a “god” that solved their problem. The rat -is- the one solving the problem.
It makes no sense to substitute “ex machina” for something else, because there is no actual physical machine or other force delivering the rat to the scene. It’s a figurative usage, and you can’t replace the figurative object of the saying with a literal subject.
You substitute “deus” for “rattus”, because they’re interchangeable – they’re both the subject of the statement, the agent taking action, the character introduced to solve a problem.
You don’t substitute “ex machina” for “ex rattus”, because they’re NOT interchangeable – there is no literal machine within the fiction of the story delivering the god, it’s a wholly external element.
“because it goes against literal millennia of convention.”
You say that as if people have been using “rattus ex machina” for millenia. They haven’t.
Frankly, I couldn’t care less whether you can appreciate my logic. It isn’t the first time you and I have disagreed, and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
Oh for Pete’s sake, you’re being purposefully obtuse, aren’t you?
As if any remotely reasonable person would honestly think I meant the play on the original phrase spawned in direct response to -today’s comic strip- rather than the original itself. You have heard of context, I assume? Or shall I lend you a dictionary?
Really now! I can only assume you’re being a grade A troll, because the alternative is almost too depressing to contemplate seriously.
The issue is if it’s the god that solved the problem or the machine that solved the problem. And in this case is it bringing in the rat that solves the problem or bringing in a third character who happens to be a rat. I’ve gone back and forth, but I’m inclined to think that as the problem was solved by bringing in rat, rather than the problem being solved by a rat who was brought in by a contrevence, I’m inclined to think the rat is the mechanism and the boinking with a book that is the solution. Deus ex Rattina.
“The rat didn’t bring a “god” that solved their problem. The rat -is- the one solving the problem.”
I have to say that, no, it is the exact opposite. The God is the solution. The machine is the convoluted convience that lead to the solution. The god/solution was the book dropping. The machanism was the rat.
That rat did indeed bring the god.
D. Walker, you could have just left it alone, and agreed that we disagree, but you just had to get in a few last petty insults, didn’t you?
You know. …my language can be more creatively descriptive than precise. Now and then, I get “called out” for it, usually by someone in programming or philosophy. Usually, I roll with it and have a sense of humor.
S’been hard, though, with everything else going on. I think it’s a little bit like excessive grammar correction. There’s a point past which it becomes inappropriate.
I mean, a touch of humor or a mention asking for clarification is one thing, yeah? Beyond that, it’s time for a cup of tea, and a reminder that while a pulpit is present, one is not at church. Then, two to five minutes in, everyone needs to add some whisky, and hoping the vicar doesn’t notice.
The interplay reminds me of that. Maybe we all need to chill for a while, and grab some pizza.
If I recall correctly, the “machina” in the original phrase was the theatrical machinery (ropes, pulleys, etc.) that lowered the actor playing the “deus” into the scene so they could work a miracle to move the plot along. In non-theatrical contexts, the “machina” would seem to be the coincidence the author contrives to bring the new character (the “deus”) into the story just when the established characters need their help
In this situation, the “machina” or coincidence would be Valiant happening to be (minor spoiler for the next day’s strip) splicing cable in or near the library when Sergio was attacked. And the cable could be considered a literal “machina” of sorts.
He’s not so much a rat from a machine as he is a rat who’s into machines.
Rodentia in machina?
I preferred the early stuff: Rattatta de Blanc
Please don’t try to police this conversation.
I found Google Translate *very* unsatisfactory here.
“De rien” you mean? Basically French for “You’re welcome.”
French I know. It’s Latin that didn’t satisfy me.
Latin is straight forward. “God from a machine”, so either “God from a rat” or “rat from a machine”. Latin is not the issue. How to apply the metaphor is. I’m inclined to think “God=dropping a book” and “machine=rat” but “God=rat” and “machine=previously unknown character” is understandable. It’s certainly not clear cut with one way being obviously correct and the other obviously wrong. Accusations of nonsensical and troll are not really applicable.
To be fair, most I.T. professionals envision themselves decked out in Cavalier hat and rapier.
Given the number of SCAdians, Marklanders, and rennies who are IT professionals, not all are merely envisioning that.
Or swords. I have two, plus other smaller pieces of stickie bits. And my collection is minuscule.
But the great bit is that I started it for a costume wedding!
Heh, me best friend did a costume wedding. He was dressed much like it sounds like you were with the Ren fair gear. His groomsmen (myself, his best man and at the time soon to be brother-in-law, and a third friend) dressed as the dude (the brother-in-law), Walther (the third friend), and Donny (I kinda pulled the short end of the stick) from The Big Labowski. He loved it.
I guess I was in the minority then.
Honestly, Whovians, Trekkers and Jedi do predominate over Renfaire characters.
One of our desktop admins has full Stormtrooper armor.
I personally imagine myself as a wizard wrapped in fine robes atop my dark tower.
But that might be from years of working in Java.
Natural habitat is the rat’s nest of cables behind any computer, natch.
A Mouseketeer’s tabard would hide the I.T. munchie-gut better than superhero spandex would.
More Ratketeer, actually…
OK, I didn’t see that coming. This is better.
Even though I called the cat by mistake, yes, this is better.
They were already off-balance, but I now suspect they’re about to become completely rat-led …
Remember Duke’s adage? ‘Always bet on the cornered rat!’ The True Rat, like
‘Splinter’ of the ‘Turtles’ can teach and fight quite well. Which this motley crew
certainly has need of. Rattus ex Machina, indeed. WElcome!
This one knows what to do when push comes to shove. Our asenine tiger-oaf
wouldn’t like to try a taste of THIS one. He’s kind of stickery.
In fiction, sure. People love stories about the underdog (or rat) beating the odds.
In reality, though, bet on the cat.
Under rat?
Yes, let’s just meet violence with silence, shall we? You know how well the Anasigma concussion protocol works? Not well at all! Team Evil is supposed to be the bad guys with the deadly weapons, but we don’t make weapons that can make their targets beat their spouse. BIFF! POW! CTE! “Oh, he’s just evil,” they’ll say when he snaps, forgetting the victim was ever a happy young animal torturer. Nice job, Righteous Fists of Fury, do you want to compare kill scores before we discuss who’s really packing the “less lethal” weaponry?
D’Ratagnan I presume?
Alas, if you swap the “R” for the “A”, then it is no longer standard French to replace the “e” in “de” with an apostrophe, as the object of the preposition now begins with a consonant, not a vowel. This would change the name to “de Ratagnan:, which doesn’t seem to be what you were going for.
(Disclaimer: Je parle français comme une vache espagnole.)
Names use non-standard spellings sometimes for historical reasons. Plus Rule of Funny. (Flawless French, otherwise).
It was in my mind to type Du Ratagnan (Thus making him a wandering IT professional of Noble birth, but I thought that would be misleading on what I was referring to.
And yes, ‘Engarde, Monsieur Pussycat.’ would be perfect.
Okay, when you find a rat I.T. professional dressed in a little tabard, wielding a rapier obviously made out of rattan — you have to assume that somewhere around here there’s a rat chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
And that is way cooler than just a wandering rat hero.
But if we’re talking hero qualities, y’know, he’s right. He is valiant.
I wonder what his name is?
…dressed in a tabard? Huh?
He’s got a bandolier (really not even that – more a belt or buckled strap), a hat, and nothing else.
I believe the over-the-shoulder belt is called a baldric.
Quite right – I suppose didn’t think of a baldric because there’s no scabbard or sheath visible, and even if there were it would be on the wrong hip, but clearly that’s what it’s trying to be and I just missed it.
If it’s a Baldric then it requires a cunning plan….
“Plague Rats” are often a standard feature in SCAdian events. Our household’s Pennsic encampment’s guarded by one sporting a collection of site tokens.
Reepicheep!
This! I was reading to see if anyone mentioned my favorite cavalier!
“Thanks for the Proust.” Words I’d never thought would be said.
My partner used to read The Search once a year. That is before we got kids, meaning the Lost Time couldn’t be ref(o)und(ed).
So yeah she may have uttered this. Several times.
Not sure if it’s a nice visual gag or a VERY nice coïncidence, but “Rat de bibliothèque” (library rat) is the phrase we use in French for bookworm.
Le reste va être amusant alors:
Prince Vaillant, rat de bibliothèque, va démontrer être rat -fesse-matthieu- par la succession de situations justifiant les collocations rat de cave, d’hôtel, de prison, d’église
Et puisque merci CNRTL, je me fends d’un bout de corpus:
[Le prince] était d’un rat! Imaginez-vous le soir, en se couchant, il cachait ses louis dans ses bottes (Zola,Nana, 1880)
Moi, prince et spectre, un rat paisible me grignote ! (Hugo, La légende des siècles, 1859)
Now if he’s says, “En garde, Monsieur Pussycat,” it will be perfect.
indeed.
So he’s a freelancer?
Or, in this case, a sellsword.
An IT guy, that I can see, but when did rats become swashbucklers?
He’s a pi-rat.
Wouldn’t that be a wandering rat mathematician?
Nah, a pi-rat would be doing thefts
This is clearly a prive-rat-tier.
The Rats Of NIEM?
Oooh, that’s some serious jealousy going on there, Artie. Don’t worry, he’s a *genmodded rat*– he can’t turn hominid, right? That takes additional work a la pink wine and pixie sticks. And if it turns out that he actually CAN, then hey, threesome! **settles down with popcorn**