Eh, I don’t know if it’s a double standard since supers don’t have a problem about violence with anyone else either. I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt for the moment and assuming she’d be a bit less chipper if she thought they couldn’t be brought back.
The other thing that came to mind is that the testing itself isn’t necessarily over. It’s merely that Nick passed the first round while Red Knight didn’t and that Nick is off to a good start by reacting with outrage rather than complacency to what she said. >_>
superheros are kinda racist now that I think about it, all the robots and non human sapients they beat up or kill on a daily basis is kinda horrifying in hindsight.
It’s still bigoted coming from superheroes that refuse to kill organics even in self defense, as most old-school capes do. Of course, that’s just a well known reflection of the machine-prejudice prevalent in the censors, which I believe is still present to this day.
It also reflects our hypocrisy on eating and/or enslaving mammals and birds that can show personalities and feelings. But you are being a bit unfair on the motive for not killing humans; super heroes are generally high-profile vigilantes. As such they are tolerated by society but have tough ‘standards’ they are expected to follow…especially if they aren’t government sanctioned. I figured Red Knight got away with his behavior as much due to his low-profile as his shadow-government sanction.
If that were true would Red Tornado have been a full member in good standing of the JLA or Vision a full member of the Avengers? Given that the Scarlet Witch seemed happy enough to marry him one could argue that Vision’s welcome into the group was a very strong one indeed. ^_^
They fill a niche role of token minority teammate included to prove other members’ freedom from prejudice, bigotry, and human supremacism. Just as in accordance with PC guidelines team must on mandatory basis include not the most able and efficient sapientes, but rather a person of colour, a LGBT person, a disabled person, and so on. Here lies _the_ difference between Skin Horse and AG-I: SH includes anyone who can do the job efficiently (more or less) regardless of their sex, gender, physical, race, species, and/or biology; AG-I includes token teammates to fall in with PC guidelines regardless of the aptness of said teammate, and goes to hell and beyond to forcibly humanize them if – and only if – they were deemed worthy of AG-I creed, whatever it may be.
As for Scarlet Witch – firstly, one can argue that she herself is not human, and, secondly – Leviticus 20:16.
“It’s still bigoted coming from superheroes that refuse to kill organics even in self defense, as most old-school capes do.”
That’s true, but haven’t no-kill rules largely fallen by the wayside (Batman and Superman excepting) in recent years? Again, I’m no expert, so I could be totally wrong about this.
My assumption is that superheroes assume (first) that non-human monsters attacking them aren’t sapients unless they prove otherwise, and (second) that destroying a robot’s body isn’t “killing” them, merely disabling them until such time as they can get another body.
Superhero resurrections are normally either “actually, he didn’t die, he [implausible coincidence],” or else are explained as one-offs that can Definitely Not Be Repeated Ever Guys, Trust Us On This, Your Characters Are Still In Real Danger. Robots you can just say “oh, he’s backed up, don’t worry about it,” and people have been saying that since the old Metal Men comics.
The original Bizarro was somehow “not really alive” and thus killable, although ultimately he sacrificed his own… existence… to cure Lucy Lane’s blindness. Subsequent Bizarros seem to be accorded as much human rights as you can afford to give to a severely mentally disabled Kryptonian.
In fact, she refuses to respect his identity as a helicopter. Granted she has SOME ground to stand on since it’s the result of brainwashing, but that doesn’t change that he genuinely holds it.
I don’t buy it. This was a set up to rough up or kill a bunch of non-humans. It failed. Plan B seems to be framing it in some positive fashion that wraps everything up (instead of tracking down the people who drove the critters berserk.) Still, better than killing everyone who learned the truth.
Is there any evidence that AG-I have anything to do with A-sig? Recently Nick explained not wanting to return to Skin Horse as being because they had fallen under Anasigma’s influence. Clearly he doesn’t think the two are related.
Test of ethics, failed by the testers. “Let’s encourage them to slaughter these endangered creatures, then give them a brownie point if they don’t do it. It’ll be fine.” And that’s a very Star Wars scale of values: “No one ever worries about hurting a /droid’s/ feelings.” Nick, get AWAY from these people.
Who ever said that A-Sig even had ethics? Or bothered to follow them anyway? o_O
This is the same group who stuck Nick in that heli-jet thing in the first place
They aren’t actually ASig, they just have a similar humans-first agenda. ASig wants everyone reality blind so they can have the best toys to rule the world, and superheroes to contain threats while life goes on for the populace would be handy for that…but they aren’t actually part of the organization.
…it might be A.G (that’s what her badge says, right? I forget her name…) is an A-Sig agent within the superhero organization, Who better than the telepath to gather information? What other infiltrator would be safe from discovery in the first place in an organization with a telepath? Who better to reassure their superhero team mates that nope, none of the team is on staff with an evil secret organization (they can tell, because they can read minds, duh.)?
Is the “test” really just a way to see if they can see how strong the connection is between Nick and our good doctor? In case they need to..erm…encourage them towards certain actions in the future?
That is cynical, reprehensible, and quite probably the absolute truth of the matter. These shadow ops agencies would give even Machiavelli a headache sometimes . . .
But only because they aren’t following his advice 😛 After all, he made it clear that it’s crucial to actually have a good side for people fight to get on.
A really unpleasant double standard, but at least it’s got well worn precedent. Jerks…
Eh, I don’t know if it’s a double standard since supers don’t have a problem about violence with anyone else either. I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt for the moment and assuming she’d be a bit less chipper if she thought they couldn’t be brought back.
The other thing that came to mind is that the testing itself isn’t necessarily over. It’s merely that Nick passed the first round while Red Knight didn’t and that Nick is off to a good start by reacting with outrage rather than complacency to what she said. >_>
If it’s actions against something that’s sentient, it’s violence.
Or we could go out in the weeds with PBS Idea Channel.
Initial vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyitF-6tBu4
Comment responses vid:
The very first mention of AG-I was about how they’re prejudiced against non-humans, so… not exactly unexpected.
“Gentleman, we can rebuild them. We have the technology.”
superheros are kinda racist now that I think about it, all the robots and non human sapients they beat up or kill on a daily basis is kinda horrifying in hindsight.
That’s a rather hasty generalization, methinks.
Not that I’m an expert, but I think that most of the robots and sapients they kill are trying to kill them. That’s rather integral to the genre, no?
It’s still bigoted coming from superheroes that refuse to kill organics even in self defense, as most old-school capes do. Of course, that’s just a well known reflection of the machine-prejudice prevalent in the censors, which I believe is still present to this day.
It also reflects our hypocrisy on eating and/or enslaving mammals and birds that can show personalities and feelings. But you are being a bit unfair on the motive for not killing humans; super heroes are generally high-profile vigilantes. As such they are tolerated by society but have tough ‘standards’ they are expected to follow…especially if they aren’t government sanctioned. I figured Red Knight got away with his behavior as much due to his low-profile as his shadow-government sanction.
If that were true would Red Tornado have been a full member in good standing of the JLA or Vision a full member of the Avengers? Given that the Scarlet Witch seemed happy enough to marry him one could argue that Vision’s welcome into the group was a very strong one indeed. ^_^
They fill a niche role of token minority teammate included to prove other members’ freedom from prejudice, bigotry, and human supremacism. Just as in accordance with PC guidelines team must on mandatory basis include not the most able and efficient sapientes, but rather a person of colour, a LGBT person, a disabled person, and so on. Here lies _the_ difference between Skin Horse and AG-I: SH includes anyone who can do the job efficiently (more or less) regardless of their sex, gender, physical, race, species, and/or biology; AG-I includes token teammates to fall in with PC guidelines regardless of the aptness of said teammate, and goes to hell and beyond to forcibly humanize them if – and only if – they were deemed worthy of AG-I creed, whatever it may be.
As for Scarlet Witch – firstly, one can argue that she herself is not human, and, secondly – Leviticus 20:16.
“It’s still bigoted coming from superheroes that refuse to kill organics even in self defense, as most old-school capes do.”
That’s true, but haven’t no-kill rules largely fallen by the wayside (Batman and Superman excepting) in recent years? Again, I’m no expert, so I could be totally wrong about this.
No, Bats still kills, just look at how many died or were extremely injured in that last crap movie, BvSvLLvLLvZvWWvDD
Guesticus, if we are going to count the last crap movie, we might as well count ‘slash fic.’
My assumption is that superheroes assume (first) that non-human monsters attacking them aren’t sapients unless they prove otherwise, and (second) that destroying a robot’s body isn’t “killing” them, merely disabling them until such time as they can get another body.
I mean, how many times has (say) Ultron “died”?
Yeah, but isn’t that true of the superheroes too?
(And in this universe… how many times did Dave die in Narbonic?)
Superhero resurrections are normally either “actually, he didn’t die, he [implausible coincidence],” or else are explained as one-offs that can Definitely Not Be Repeated Ever Guys, Trust Us On This, Your Characters Are Still In Real Danger. Robots you can just say “oh, he’s backed up, don’t worry about it,” and people have been saying that since the old Metal Men comics.
The original Bizarro was somehow “not really alive” and thus killable, although ultimately he sacrificed his own… existence… to cure Lucy Lane’s blindness. Subsequent Bizarros seem to be accorded as much human rights as you can afford to give to a severely mentally disabled Kryptonian.
…that came out wrong, sorry.
Do Hittie and Moustachio experience pain?
As for Sweetdaddy, we defs know he’s been programmed for *pleasure*… so I would expect that to be the case with the contrasting sensation as well…
Nick, *please* put that bundt cake to good use- and I don’t mean eating it!
That is what he was implying in the last panel (maybe not about the bundt cake specifically.. )
Dude, you are talking to a freaking helicopter. What kind of telepath is that clueless.
Cyborgs aren’t real robots.
In fact, she refuses to respect his identity as a helicopter. Granted she has SOME ground to stand on since it’s the result of brainwashing, but that doesn’t change that he genuinely holds it.
I’m sure Virginia washed his brain before putting it into the helicopter, but I don’t think that was the most important step.
True. You have to schlorp before you can do anything else…
Wonder if that sound effect was original here…
Came here to say this. Telling a person who is a machine that machines ‘don’t count’ is the polar opposite of diplomacy.
Yes, but it’s the .0.03% organic percent that makes up all the difference! 🙂
“Congrats! You’ve passed probation! Now you get to work with the people who can _convincingly_ fake heroism!”
It’s all probing awful.
I don’t buy it. This was a set up to rough up or kill a bunch of non-humans. It failed. Plan B seems to be framing it in some positive fashion that wraps everything up (instead of tracking down the people who drove the critters berserk.) Still, better than killing everyone who learned the truth.
A-Sig are the ones who drove the critters berserk
Different branches or A-Sig. I’m happy accepting some compartmentalization. I’m not sure if what-her-name is a conspirator or a tool.
branches OF A-Sig. Bah!
Is there any evidence that AG-I have anything to do with A-sig? Recently Nick explained not wanting to return to Skin Horse as being because they had fallen under Anasigma’s influence. Clearly he doesn’t think the two are related.
How would he turn the pages of the Hero Handbook? Or is it posted online?
Test of ethics, failed by the testers. “Let’s encourage them to slaughter these endangered creatures, then give them a brownie point if they don’t do it. It’ll be fine.” And that’s a very Star Wars scale of values: “No one ever worries about hurting a /droid’s/ feelings.” Nick, get AWAY from these people.
…This really is why they have Skin Horse, huh?
Who ever said that A-Sig even had ethics? Or bothered to follow them anyway? o_O
This is the same group who stuck Nick in that heli-jet thing in the first place
They aren’t actually ASig, they just have a similar humans-first agenda. ASig wants everyone reality blind so they can have the best toys to rule the world, and superheroes to contain threats while life goes on for the populace would be handy for that…but they aren’t actually part of the organization.
So, puppets rather than minions.
…it might be A.G (that’s what her badge says, right? I forget her name…) is an A-Sig agent within the superhero organization, Who better than the telepath to gather information? What other infiltrator would be safe from discovery in the first place in an organization with a telepath? Who better to reassure their superhero team mates that nope, none of the team is on staff with an evil secret organization (they can tell, because they can read minds, duh.)?
Her name’s Panoptica. AG-I is the superhero organization they belong to.
So will RK be extirpated now? Aside from his bad showing here, I’m just sure his boots weren’t polished according to A-Sig’s standards.
Is the “test” really just a way to see if they can see how strong the connection is between Nick and our good doctor? In case they need to..erm…encourage them towards certain actions in the future?
That is cynical, reprehensible, and quite probably the absolute truth of the matter. These shadow ops agencies would give even Machiavelli a headache sometimes . . .
But only because they aren’t following his advice 😛 After all, he made it clear that it’s crucial to actually have a good side for people fight to get on.
Are we about to see the reset button pressed? Was the whole Skin Horse getting disbanded all an illusion to see how Nick would react?
That would amuse me without surprising me. ^_^
And here I thought this was just about “who put the probe in probation…”
If this is anything like an interview period, Nick ought to be able to give AG-I a failing grade himself.